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"Fixing health care"
Posted by: Pismire_Is_A_Dunce (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 08:29AM

In the US, health care costs take roughly 18% of GDP. In the rest of the world, it is 10% or less. And they get better results in almost all cases.

Here's the problem with the claims that anyone can "fix" the US health care system. What they mean is lower the cost and raise the quality.

Lowering the cost is a pie in the sky never gonna happen absolute UNLESS you go to a single payer system. Here's why.

There are 3 entities involved. Providers, (doctors, hospitals, pharma) Insurers, and consumers of health care. In order to lower the cost, one or more of those 3 entities will need to take a financial hit.

Do you think doctors are going to want to take a 25% cut in their wages? Will hospitals gladly give up 25%? Pharma, the industry that has just promised to keep yearly drug increases to no more than 10%, going to cut prices 25%?

Of course not.

How about insurers? They going to take a hit for the team and cut their take by 25%? Never in a million years.

So, who is left? Aha, the CONsumers of health care. (you and me) And this is where the costs of the system are being shifted. Medicare is costing the elderly more and more each year. Companies are increasing deductibles and copays for those covered by plans. Yes, my dooshbags, the shift has been ongoing for years and will continue.

HSA's are just another way to shift more expenses to the worker/consumer of health care, but give you a little tax benefit to make it feel like you at least have some lube when you bend over. Hey lookie, you can save a few dollars in taxes and put some money into this pretax account that you then use to pay for your own health care!!! Aren't those politicians great to us?

So, as you see, there are no solutions to the current profit based, everyone has their hands in the til system.

A single payer system removes the insurers completely, thereby saving a good portion of the overall costs. It also enables the single payer to negotiate better prices with doctors, hospitals, and pharma companies so you can see why those entities don't like that scenario.

The ACA wasn't perfect. In fact, it was originally Mitt Romney's plan in Mass. You remember Mitt, he's a Republican!!!

The Republicans now are kind of stuck. They promised to repeal and replace and with a better plan that lowers costs and raises quality. Neither of which they can deliver using a free market system.

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Barbrady (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 08:52AM

Here's one problem. The feds say hospitals(non-profits I think) must treat people even if they don't have insurance. Now guess who reimburses them for those costs?

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Pismire_Is_A_Dunce (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 09:02AM

Barbrady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's one problem. The feds say
> hospitals(non-profits I think) must treat people
> even if they don't have insurance. Now guess who
> reimburses them for those costs?

You don't think health care is a RIGHT? We should just let sick people die because they can't afford insurance? Wow, and I'm supposed to be the unethical/Immoral one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2017 09:03AM by Pismire_Is_A_Dunce.

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Barbrady (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 09:07AM

Guess who pays?

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Pismire_Is_A_Dunce (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 09:15AM

Barbrady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guess who pays?


I know who pays and I'm fine with it. The hospitals write off much of the free health care they provide also. And, it isn't you and me as much as you think it is. Because for those of us with insurance, the insurance companies negotiate prices with the hospitals.

Are you fine with letting people die who are sick and uninsured? My guess is you are, if they are black, Muslim, or non white.

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Pismire_Is_A_Dunce (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 09:18AM

Who pays for your 85 year old grandpa to have a triple bypass for 100K so he can live an extra 6 months? You OK with that?

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Barbrady (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 09:38AM

It's my understanding that people with insurance pay for it by being charged more which is wrong.

The FEDS should pay for it!

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Pismire_Is_A_Dunce (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 09:52AM

Barbrady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's my understanding that people with insurance
> pay for it by being charged more which is wrong.
>
> The FEDS should pay for it!


Not really. Insurance companies negotiate prices and get a better deal that someone without insurance.

If you have insurance and get a heart bypass, versus someone without insurance who gets one, which one is billed more?

The person without.

Hospitals also write off lots of care given to the less fortunate.

You didn't answer the question. Are you OK with people dying because they don't have insurance?

And who should pay for your grandpa to get a 100K bypass at the age of 85?

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Gary_Rosati (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 10:41AM

Barbrady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's one problem. The feds say
> hospitals(non-profits I think) must treat people
> even if they don't have insurance. Now guess who
> reimburses them for those costs?


That’s one of the benefits of Obamacare, some 20 million people have insurance now that didn’t before the law came into effect. That’s 20 million people that have their healthcare costs cover by insurance that otherwise would be paid by the taxpayers. And while under Obamacare the Taxpayers are still taking a hit because of the substitutes, the cost is far less because the costs are being paid at the preferred rate negotiated by the insurance industry.

You Trumpeters like to talk about the 2 million who lost insurance under the ACA but that’s a half truth as it doesn’t account for the fact that most, it not all, these people got insurance in the end. And you guys never talk about the 20 million people who are now covered by insurance that were never able to get insurance before Obamacare.

Trump promised everyone better insurance of less, but from his speech to Congress its clear he’s punting on this issue, giving it to the dysfunctional Republican Congress, and offering no leadership. Typical Trump, over promise and under preform.

One thing the Republican Congress did do is sabotage the ACA by removing the tax penalty for not having insurance. This will kill the law but of course Republicans will say it “collapsed of its owe weight”, which is another lie. Still, it will force the Republicans to come-up with their alternative, which, when it comes, will push more costs onto the consumer and the ever shrinking middle-class taxpayers.

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: JackReacher2015 (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 11:02AM

Since I've already covered what the Republicans are thinking about doing in another thread, I can only add that in my travels, when I meet people from countries that have universal health care, I always ask them how they like it. I have NEVER met anyone who said they didn't like it, from Belgians to Dutch to Canadians and more in between, they always are happy and do not mind paying more in taxes to support it.

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Barbrady (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 11:18AM

When Uncle Sam pays for these other countries' defense they can afford to pay for their health care.

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Pismire_Is_A_Dunce (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 11:46AM

JackReacher2015 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since I've already covered what the Republicans
> are thinking about doing in another thread, I can
> only add that in my travels, when I meet people
> from countries that have universal health care, I
> always ask them how they like it. I have NEVER met
> anyone who said they didn't like it, from Belgians
> to Dutch to Canadians and more in between, they
> always are happy and do not mind paying more in
> taxes to support it.


Me too. In fact, they even ask why America doesn't have universal coverage.

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Pismire_Is_A_Dunce (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 11:48AM

Barbrady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When Uncle Sam pays for these other countries'
> defense they can afford to pay for their health
> care.


It truly is amazing how you parrot the false stuff that the Republican fake news sites feeds you.

The US military industrial complex is a bloated misuse of dollars. Instead of spending MORE, should be spending LESS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2017 11:56AM by Pismire_Is_A_Dunce.

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: anothermike (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 12:15PM

Jack said it all....AND it is that simple....folks in other countries who have universal health care are satisfied with it and do not mind a paycheck deduction for it...idiots in America expect the same thing for free and a lower tax to boot....not going to happen folks......

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: JackReacher2015 (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2017 07:36PM

Barbrady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When Uncle Sam pays for these other countries'
> defense they can afford to pay for their health
> care.
////

I really hate to sound like Webby but you really are a dunce, Barbie. If you knew anything about healthcare in foreign countries, you'd know that taxes are higher in such countries in order to pay for healthcare and the citizens have no problems with it being that way.
Oh, and in some instances free university tuitions are also included.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2017 07:37PM by JackReacher2015.

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Pismire_Is_A_Dunce (IP Logged)
Date: March 03, 2017 12:50AM

JackReacher2015 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Barbrady Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When Uncle Sam pays for these other countries'
> > defense they can afford to pay for their health
> > care.
> ////
>
> I really hate to sound like Webby but you really
> are a dunce, Barbie. If you knew anything about
> healthcare in foreign countries, you'd know that
> taxes are higher in such countries in order to pay
> for healthcare and the citizens have no problems
> with it being that way.
> Oh, and in some instances free university tuitions
> are also included.


Don't worry Jack, embrace your Webby side.

While the US spends billions on defense so that we can destroy the world 1000 times over, the rest of the world spends on health care and education.

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: JackReacher2015 (IP Logged)
Date: March 03, 2017 05:34AM

I know. We're just a few hundred warheads short of the Russians and can already wipe the earth clean but Trump is proposing $54 Billion is needed for more arms. But that's the Republican way!

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: anothermike (IP Logged)
Date: March 03, 2017 10:54AM

Once again, the repubs spending more on weapons and defense than the Pentagon ever needed and never asked for......

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: Barbrady (IP Logged)
Date: March 03, 2017 05:38PM

JackReacher2015 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Barbrady Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When Uncle Sam pays for these other countries'
> > defense they can afford to pay for their health
> > care.
> ////
>
> I really hate to sound like Webby but you really
> are a dunce, Barbie. If you knew anything about
> healthcare in foreign countries, you'd know that
> taxes are higher in such countries in order to pay
> for healthcare and the citizens have no problems
> with it being that way.
> Oh, and in some instances free university tuitions
> are also included.


I never said their taxes were high and I never said their taxes were low.

If they didn't have the U.S. taxpayer subsidizing their defense, their taxes would be that much higher. It's not that complicated.

Re: "Fixing health care"
Posted by: cycler (IP Logged)
Date: March 04, 2017 10:15AM

NO, Health care is and never will be considered a "right" by many - yes it is by many but Why would you think so ? That's not to say every effort should not be made to provide medical care to the society as a whole.

Healthcare is a business, not unlike agriculture is a business that provides food. Is access to food a right ?

or: equality of opportunity is not a natural state; it is a social achievement, for which government shares some responsibility.

So, if the Government intercedes by funding universal access via tax dollars then yes, the society then has a right to healthcare, taxpayer or not. This is not a supportable position for the Right however.

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