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Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: Voter (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 12:21PM

Ok. So they want me to pass a tax that increases my bill at a store so that the shoplifters from Youngstown can get a free ride to aforementioned store. Got it.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: Bill (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 12:50PM

Sure I would make that deal. Pay for my car, anyone can use it when they want, but they have to pay a fee to do so. It will be reasonable, not what the market value of a rental would cost, little less.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: response (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 02:19PM

Carol Rimedio Righetti, D-4th, was enthusiastic in her support of the countywide tax: "I think we need to service all the people of Mahoning County"

Yeah, and you know what "service" means on the farm when the bull "services" the cows, right?

So people in the rest of the county will have to pay taxes for the next 5 years to provide subsidised bus rides to people in Ytown (who are 95% + of the riders). And the buses won't even come near where most people in the county live since WRTA doesn't venture much beyond the immediate vicinity of the Ytown borders.

"Service", indeed.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: city_resident (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 02:58PM

response Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So people in the rest of the county will have to
> pay taxes for the next 5 years to provide
> subsidised bus rides to people in Ytown (who are
> 95% + of the riders). And the buses won't even
> come near where most people in the county live
> since WRTA doesn't venture much beyond the
> immediate vicinity of the Ytown borders.

The service is so limited to the rest of the county because the service is currently paid for with Youngstown property taxes and actual fares. Most of the riders are from Youngstown because it's currently very inconvenient for most people outside the city limits take the bus.

I posted a link to Stark county's page in my first post to this thread to show how the WRTA's service could be expanded to the rest of the county. If service was convenient and available to more people, more people would probably ride.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: response (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 03:18PM

If you build it, they will ride?

Wasn't that the premise behind the Chevy Center? If you build it, they will come see shows?

Show me a cost/benefit analysis and a needs study, explain EXACTLY what will be provided with this tax money (routes, schedules, capital equipment replacement costs, ridership numbers) then we'll talk.

You can moo all you want, but I ain't got no udder.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: closedshop (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 05:24PM

city_resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The service is so limited to the rest of the
> county because the service is currently paid for
> with Youngstown property taxes and actual fares.
> Most of the riders are from Youngstown because
> it's currently very inconvenient for most people
> outside the city limits take the bus.

I know it seems like a Catch-22, but let's look at taxing the whole county under the premise that the whole county will then have bus service. First of all, how many people from the north half of Washingtonville, or from Greenford, or Ellsworth, or Craig Beach, or Sebring, are going to use the bus? Where would they go on it? They're all in Mahoning County. Are they going to support the WRTA? Of course not. People not in and immediately surrounding Youngstown will not support throwing more of their money at Youngstown - they still remember and resent the questionable shennanigans that led up to the birth of the Mill Creek Metro Park District. How much use do you suppose those towns I mentioned get out of Mill Creek Park?

How many buses will the WRTA send to the small towns that dot Mahoning County? Will people be able to catch one to go to work, and another to get back home? What times will the buses run? Will they run every 20 minutes, so if you miss one you can catch the next?

Do you begin to see why it's laughable to think that anyone outside the Youngstown Metro area will support the WRTA? They know what they'll get for their higher tax payments: bupkiss.


>
> I posted a link to Stark county's page in my first
> post to this thread to show how the WRTA's service
> could be expanded to the rest of the county. If
> service was convenient and available to more
> people, more people would probably ride.

Heck, I'D ride the bus if it was convenient and available! . . . and affordable. But if I have to walk a half mile and then stand in the freezing rain for 20 minutes, and then not be taken where I need to go, so I have to walk some more through the bad weather when I get off the bus, then I might as well drive.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: toad (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 07:41PM

People in large metro areas take buses for several reasons.

1.) Downtown parking shortages.
2.) Downtown monthly parking leases are usually $120+ a month in larger cities.
3.) Buses can drive in the carpool lane or special bus lanes getting you to work faster.
4.) You can live in a larger city without the need to own a car because you have all the conveniences near by.

Youngstown has none of the above. Even when WRTA was fully operational there would only be 4 or 5 people on a bus AT THE MAX. Public transportation thrives in areas only where there is a need and even in those areas it's seldom profitable.

Toad

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: city_resident (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 08:33PM

response Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Show me a cost/benefit analysis and a needs study,
> explain EXACTLY what will be provided with this
> tax money (routes, schedules, capital equipment
> replacement costs, ridership numbers) then we'll
> talk.

I'd like to see this stuff too. If, for example, they just want to reinstate the night and weekend service without expanded and more frequent routes, I won't be voting for the sales tax.

closedshop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know it seems like a Catch-22, but let's look at
> taxing the whole county under the premise that the
> whole county will then have bus service. First of
> all, how many people from the north half of
> Washingtonville, or from Greenford, or Ellsworth,
> or Craig Beach, or Sebring, are going to use the
> bus? Where would they go on it? They're all in
> Mahoning County. Are they going to support the
> WRTA? Of course not. People not in and immediately
> surrounding Youngstown will not support throwing
> more of their money at Youngstown

Again, I'm going to use SARTA (Stark Area Regional Transit Authority) as the model. Areas with heavier use/population obviously get more service. To do otherwise would be wasteful.

This route happens to be very popular, and serves many people. As you can see, it runs every half hour from 5AM to 9PM.
[www.sartaonline.com]
And, then from 9:45PM to 12:45AM, there is the night route:
[www.sartaonline.com]

The less populated part of the county gets service. But, in proportion to its population.
[www.sartaonline.com]

> - they still
> remember and resent the questionable shennanigans
> that led up to the birth of the Mill Creek Metro
> Park District. How much use do you suppose those
> towns I mentioned get out of Mill Creek Park?

I don't know what you're talking about. I wasn't living here when the park was "given" to the county. From your description I assume the MAJORITY of the voters wanted the city to keep the park?

The residents of these distant towns are still free to use the park like everyone else... Also, how is the park funded? Is it through a sales tax, property tax, or what? If it's a sales tax, and they feel that resentful, they could always boycott stores in Mahoning county and do their shopping in a neighboring county.

> How many buses will the WRTA send to the small
> towns that dot Mahoning County? Will people be
> able to catch one to go to work, and another to
> get back home? What times will the buses run? Will
> they run every 20 minutes, so if you miss one you
> can catch the next?

I don't know. As I said in my response to response, I'd like to know this too, before voting for anything.

> Do you begin to see why it's laughable to think
> that anyone outside the Youngstown Metro area will
> support the WRTA? They know what they'll get for
> their higher tax payments: bupkiss.

Remember, the WRTA is asking for a sales tax. If the residents of these distant small towns don't feel that they are receiving enough service for their share of the tax, they can boycott businesses in Mahoning county and do their shopping in neighboring counties.

> Heck, I'D ride the bus if it was convenient and
> available! . . . and affordable. But if I have to
> walk a half mile and then stand in the freezing
> rain for 20 minutes, and then not be taken where I
> need to go, so I have to walk some more through
> the bad weather when I get off the bus, then I
> might as well drive.

I'd hope that this is what the sales tax would address--making mass transit available and convenient to as many people as possible throughout the county.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: Josie (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 08:43PM

I am all for a county wide transportation because of all the elderly and disabled people I see paying transportation companies $600 a month to be transported to the cancer and dialysis centers. It cost $30 for a taxi one way in this county. This service would be utilized by these individuals who make a great majority of population. I disagree with WRTA operating a county wide transportation system. I feel some people in authority there are not equipped to handle this vast of a transportation system. Give someone else a chance.
On a serious note, approximately a year ago an elderly person was killed because there was not safe and affordable transportation available to a medical appointment which resulted in the person transporting himself. Don't always think "bad" people bus service.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: truth (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 08:51PM

If one elderly life a year is all it takes in order not to get taxed for this BS, then by all means, it is fine with me. It is not like they have all that long to live anyways.

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