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Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: city_resident (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 08:55PM

toad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People in large metro areas take buses for several
> reasons.
>
> 1.) Downtown parking shortages.
> 2.) Downtown monthly parking leases are usually
> $120+ a month in larger cities.
> 3.) Buses can drive in the carpool lane or special
> bus lanes getting you to work faster.
> 4.) You can live in a larger city without the need
> to own a car because you have all the conveniences
> near by.
>
> Youngstown has none of the above.

Toad! Long time no write!

Youngstown is not a large metro area. Canton is not a large metro area either.

People also ride the bus for the following reasons:

1. They can't drive because:
1a. they can't afford it.
1b. they are unable due to a disability
1c. they never got a license, or had it taken away.

2. They want to save money/wear and tear on the car.

3. They just don't want to drive.

> Even when WRTA
> was fully operational there would only be 4 or 5
> people on a bus AT THE MAX.

Hmmm. I rarely see fewer than 10-15 people on the buses I ride daily. Imagine how many more there might be if service was expanded to serve more people.

> Public transportation
> thrives in areas only where there is a need and
> even in those areas it's seldom profitable.

Outside of maybe NYC, are there any mass transit systems that operate solely on the fares collected? I'm fairly sure that even Chicago's system is partially funded from taxes of some sort.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: city_resident (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 09:00PM

truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If one elderly life a year is all it takes in
> order not to get taxed for this BS, then by all
> means, it is fine with me. It is not like they
> have all that long to live anyways.

OMG!!! LOL!!! You're willing to let someone die just so you can save a QUARTER the next time you spend $100 at WalMart???

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: truth (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2007 10:02PM

city_resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If one elderly life a year is all it takes in
> > order not to get taxed for this BS, then by all
> > means, it is fine with me. It is not like they
> > have all that long to live anyways.
>
> OMG!!! LOL!!! You're willing to let someone die
> just so you can save a QUARTER the next time you
> spend $100 at WalMart???


My quarters are very important to me. Somebody's elderly baggage is not.

.25> old people.

And don't shop at WalMart, it gives you anus cancer.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: bobo (IP Logged)
Date: December 20, 2007 12:59PM

Why not merge Youngstown City Schools and WRTA and take all the delinquent and trouble-making kids in the Youngstown School System and take them out of their school buildings and put them on a WRTA bus that cruises around the city all day long?

You would save the cost of putting those kids in a dentention center and would also have them all in one place so you could keep a watchful eye on them.

This would:
1. Allow the good kids to learn in a safe secure school environment.
2. Provide needed employment for the WRTA drivers, maintenance and employees
3. Give Wendy Webb more responsibility to justify her salary
4. Allow kids to enjoy those fabulous diesel fumes

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: Keep Joking (IP Logged)
Date: December 20, 2007 02:09PM

I move out of the area on New Years Eve. It's really not by choice. The lack of good jobs, schools, and neighborhoods forced me to make this decision.

My parents moved me here from the North East part of the country when I was a teen. I basically grew up here and really enjoyed it. I consider myself from Youngstown and will miss a lot of things about the area.

It really is so sad that the people here are so, so negative. You folks poison the very well you have to drink from and don't even have sense enough to know it.

There is a lot of waste in our tax bills, no doubt. But the bus system would not be one of them. Any community without a strong public transportation system is dead.

I'm reading all of the foolishness about shoplifters using the bus to steal from stores. That is the stupidest argument I'v ever heard. Why don't you blame GM and other auto makers for the thieves who drive to the stores to steal? How ridiculous can you be?

When you look at how tax dollars are allocated in the county, the MR/DD funding outstrips everything. I think that is out of kilter.

I have nothing against retarded or developmentally delayed people. However, I support their "learning" with my tax dollars. I don't begrudge them funding, but I do think the amount they get, especially when you consider the return to society on the dollars spent on this program, is wrong. I don't feel as though I should have to subsidize someone elses' retarded relative with my earnings, but I do.

So, all of this bull about not wanting to take care of someone else's elderly or pay for some one else's transporation is bull.

I find the attitude in this thread truly sad. Especially since as the new year dawns we've just learned that another major employer for this area is probably going to close.

We need infrastructure, including public transportation to remain solvent and to attract new business. I'm leaving because I see that the people of this community will never, ever allow positive change to take place here.

Just know, in 10-20 years from now that you created your own reality by destroying every positive avenue you have for making a change.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: tom (IP Logged)
Date: January 19, 2008 07:15AM

the county needs ways for the elderly,disabled and those in low paying jobs to get to doctors,grocery stores and work.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: how can it be? (IP Logged)
Date: January 19, 2008 08:26AM

How can it possibly be economically feasible to run buses to Berlin Center, Greenford, and so on? Even if they had minivans instead of buses, it could never work. Yes, I understand that the WRTA needs money, or they'll be forced to stop running buses. But with the population moving away from this area, that's inevitable.

Nobody ever made their decision on whether to locate their business somewhere or not because of the availability of public transportation.

Very few, if any, people outside the city need or want public transportation, which, by the nature of things outside the grid pattern of a city, would mean any bus service would have to cover large amounts of mileage to accomodate one or two passengers. So if the working poor need transportation to their jobs, the WRTA would need either a large number of buses to cover the entire county at 7 am, and another trip at 5 pm, to get them to and from work. What are the buses going to do the rest of the time? Ride around empty, in case someone wants to go somewhere that particular bus happens to go? Will I be able to catch the bus in North Jackson and return the book I borrowed at the Ellsworth Library? And then go to New Springfield to shop?

Public transportation cannot work outside the densely-populated urban areas. That's why it does not exist in any rural area anywhere in the country. For the WRTA to claim they'll provide these services to Mahoning County is nothing but a bald-faced lie.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: city_resident (IP Logged)
Date: January 19, 2008 10:33AM

how can it be? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nobody ever made their decision on whether to
> locate their business somewhere or not because of
> the availability of public transportation.

Really? I've heard the opposite. The quality of an area's mass-transportation system is ONE of the criteria they use to decide.

> Very few, if any, people outside the city need or
> want public transportation,

Sure, because those who needed it had to move where it was available.

> which, by the nature
> of things outside the grid pattern of a city,
> would mean any bus service would have to cover
> large amounts of mileage to accomodate one or two
> passengers. So if the working poor need
> transportation to their jobs, the WRTA would need
> either a large number of buses to cover the entire
> county at 7 am, and another trip at 5 pm, to get
> them to and from work. What are the buses going to
> do the rest of the time? Ride around empty, in
> case someone wants to go somewhere that particular
> bus happens to go? Will I be able to catch the bus
> in North Jackson and return the book I borrowed at
> the Ellsworth Library? And then go to New
> Springfield to shop?
>
> Public transportation cannot work outside the
> densely-populated urban areas. That's why it does
> not exist in any rural area anywhere in the
> country. For the WRTA to claim they'll provide
> these services to Mahoning County is nothing but a
> bald-faced lie.

Check out this link to the listing of routes the Stark county RTA offers.
[www.sartaonline.com]

To answer your question about serving rural areas, look at route 121 as an example of how less populated areas can be served.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2008 10:34AM by city_resident.

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: Okay (IP Logged)
Date: January 19, 2008 11:02AM

But Massillon has about 32,000 residents, and over 30 bus routes in the morning, in order to provide this service. Youngstown has, even by the most pessimistic estimates, well over twice that. So would Youngstown need to buy another 45 buses and put all 60 of them on the road every morning, in order to provide a similar service?

Re: WRTA sales tax to be on ballot
Posted by: city_resident (IP Logged)
Date: January 19, 2008 11:44AM

Stark county's population is about 380k. Mahoning county's population is about 251k. At a quick glance, it looks like there are less than 40 routes serving Stark county. (excluding night service routes) Wouldn't that mean that there should be about 26 buses on the road each morning to provide a similar service? I'm fairly certain that, when you add in the smaller van-buses to serve the outlying communities, WRTA may already have close to that many buses in its fleet.

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