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any group who's pursuing regionalism should investigate the studies which were performed by the ysu urban studies dept during the 1970's. I personally was part of a professor/student group who spent the good part of an academic year developing a survey questionaire which was used to interview a number of residents in defined neighborhoods. the professors involved were dr. frank costsa the urban studies director and dr. steve redburn, a political science instructor. I'm certain people will be quite surprised reading the study's outcomes.

the city of youngstown is in the prime position for pushing "mergers" through their control of water. I prefer this name mergers versus annexation. mergers are the underlying requirement for serious regionalization. if your discussing regionalization you need to be discussing merger governments. I sincerely doubt the city's leadership will take a strong stance here because of the probable future political aspirations of jay williams. thus, the private sector needs to lead.

besides schools, safety forces should be a target. mill creek "metropolitan" park functions as a county park, not a metro park. look at cleveland's metroparks. its ridiculous to have seperate levies for township parks and mill creek. a park district should be in control of all the parks with one regional park levy. certainly there can be representation from the townships on the metro board.

this is a huge subject. one that takes years to plan, develop, implement and change. too bad there was and continues to be opposition to the obvious concept of regionalism. the latest of which was displayed by the boardman trustees regarding the water tank replacement issue. too many "big " fish in little ponds.

dan desalvo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> any group who's pursuing regionalism should
> investigate the studies which were performed by
> the ysu urban studies dept during the 1970's. I
> personally was part of a professor/student group
> who spent the good part of an academic year
> developing a survey questionaire which was used to
> interview a number of residents in defined
> neighborhoods. the professors involved were dr.
> frank costsa the urban studies director and dr.
> steve redburn, a political science instructor.
> I'm certain people will be quite surprised reading
> the study's outcomes.
>
> the city of youngstown is in the prime position
> for pushing "mergers" through their control of
> water. I prefer this name mergers versus
> annexation. mergers are the underlying requirement
> for serious regionalization. if your discussing
> regionalization you need to be discussing merger
> governments. I sincerely doubt the city's
> leadership will take a strong stance here because
> of the probable future political aspirations of
> jay williams. thus, the private sector needs to
> lead.
>
> besides schools, safety forces should be a target.
> mill creek "metropolitan" park functions as a
> county park, not a metro park. look at cleveland's
> metroparks. its ridiculous to have seperate levies
> for township parks and mill creek. a park district
> should be in control of all the parks with one
> regional park levy. certainly there can be
> representation from the townships on the metro
> board.
>
> this is a huge subject. one that takes years to
> plan, develop, implement and change. too bad
> there was and continues to be opposition to the
> obvious concept of regionalism. the latest of
> which was displayed by the boardman trustees
> regarding the water tank replacement issue. too
> many "big " fish in little ponds.


Outstanding post!

DougK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dan desalvo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > any group who's pursuing regionalism should
> > investigate the studies which were performed by
> > the ysu urban studies dept during the 1970's.
> I
> > personally was part of a professor/student
> group
> > who spent the good part of an academic year
> > developing a survey questionaire which was used
> to
> > interview a number of residents in defined
> > neighborhoods. the professors involved were dr.
> > frank costsa the urban studies director and dr.
> > steve redburn, a political science instructor.
> > I'm certain people will be quite surprised
> reading
> > the study's outcomes.
> >
> > the city of youngstown is in the prime position
> > for pushing "mergers" through their control of
> > water. I prefer this name mergers versus
> > annexation. mergers are the underlying
> requirement
> > for serious regionalization. if your discussing
> > regionalization you need to be discussing
> merger
> > governments. I sincerely doubt the city's
> > leadership will take a strong stance here
> because
> > of the probable future political aspirations of
> > jay williams. thus, the private sector needs to
> > lead.
> >
> > besides schools, safety forces should be a
> target.
> > mill creek "metropolitan" park functions as a
> > county park, not a metro park. look at
> cleveland's
> > metroparks. its ridiculous to have seperate
> levies
> > for township parks and mill creek. a park
> district
> > should be in control of all the parks with one
> > regional park levy. certainly there can be
> > representation from the townships on the metro
> > board.
> >
> > this is a huge subject. one that takes years to
> > plan, develop, implement and change. too bad
> > there was and continues to be opposition to the
> > obvious concept of regionalism. the latest of
> > which was displayed by the boardman trustees
> > regarding the water tank replacement issue. too
> > many "big " fish in little ponds.
>
>
> Outstanding post!


Doug,

Spoken like a true socialist. If you can't feed yourself mooch off your neighbors, right? Please reevaluate your political affiliations in the future. As a TRUE conservative I am here to rip up your membership card to the Republican Party.

Toad



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2007 04:11AM by toad.

Oops ... another article, another clown detection! The people in the '70s in the mahoning valley have already screwed things up bad enough. Look at all the mess big bad warren and youngstown cities have caused over the last 30-50 years!

Here's a great idea for you to ponder - properly taken, "merger" could definitely be the way to go - the key though is to have the correct end of the horse driving this concept so to speak. Annexation, in any form, in any disguise, must be avoided at all costs. When you have a sickness, a weakness, a cancer, etc., the last thing you want to do is expose good healthy sources to this bad sickness etc. The cities of warren and youngstown are, have been, and will continue to be like a cancer - just festering away for years on end until they eventually drag the whole valley down the tubes with them. When you speak of "mergers" here are some excellent ideas:

a) MERGE Austintown, Canfield, Boardman, and Poland - four areas that have managed over the years to do things right - or at least more right than y'town.

b) go to Trumbull County and MERGE Champion, Bazetta, Howland, Weathersfield, Vienna, and Liberty - again, areas that collectively do have and always have had something to show for their efforts.

c) an alternative look could be to create the "Trumbull County Charter" and the "Mahoning County Charter" - but here is the key - you CAN NOT allow youngstown OR warren OR any of the current county politicians to meddle in this process, for they have the Midas touch, and as soon as they get involved, it will turn to crap - this fact has been proven over and over and over - put the bigger cities in the area in charge and they WILL find a way to screw things up for majority that makes up the rest of the county. Places like Niles, Newton Falls, Cortland, etc. may well fit in with this plan, but warren and y'town should be left out of the discussions until the plan is in action due to their proven track record of screwing things up.

There you go - problem solved - and yes, regionalization COULD be a good thing - as long as it is done RIGHT and NOT done with the same mentality that has put the valley in such a horrific state as it currently is today. Think about it - you KNOW it's true.

toad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DougK Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dan desalvo Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > any group who's pursuing regionalism should
> > > investigate the studies which were performed
> by
> > > the ysu urban studies dept during the 1970's.
>
> > I
> > > personally was part of a professor/student
> > group
> > > who spent the good part of an academic year
> > > developing a survey questionaire which was
> used
> > to
> > > interview a number of residents in defined
> > > neighborhoods. the professors involved were
> dr.
> > > frank costsa the urban studies director and
> dr.
> > > steve redburn, a political science instructor.
>
> > > I'm certain people will be quite surprised
> > reading
> > > the study's outcomes.
> > >
> > > the city of youngstown is in the prime
> position
> > > for pushing "mergers" through their control
> of
> > > water. I prefer this name mergers versus
> > > annexation. mergers are the underlying
> > requirement
> > > for serious regionalization. if your
> discussing
> > > regionalization you need to be discussing
> > merger
> > > governments. I sincerely doubt the city's
> > > leadership will take a strong stance here
> > because
> > > of the probable future political aspirations
> of
> > > jay williams. thus, the private sector needs
> to
> > > lead.
> > >
> > > besides schools, safety forces should be a
> > target.
> > > mill creek "metropolitan" park functions as a
> > > county park, not a metro park. look at
> > cleveland's
> > > metroparks. its ridiculous to have seperate
> > levies
> > > for township parks and mill creek. a park
> > district
> > > should be in control of all the parks with
> one
> > > regional park levy. certainly there can be
> > > representation from the townships on the
> metro
> > > board.
> > >
> > > this is a huge subject. one that takes years
> to
> > > plan, develop, implement and change. too bad
> > > there was and continues to be opposition to
> the
> > > obvious concept of regionalism. the latest
> of
> > > which was displayed by the boardman trustees
> > > regarding the water tank replacement issue.
> too
> > > many "big " fish in little ponds.
> >
> >
> > Outstanding post!
>
>
> Doug,
>
> Spoken like a true socialist. If you can't feed
> yourself mooch off your neighbors, right? Please
> reevaluate your political affiliations in the
> future. As a TRUE conservative I am here to rip
> up your membership card to the Republican Party.
>
>
> Toad

....A true conservative would be in favor of regionalization. It cuts down on the size of government and the cost.You need to educate yourself!

clown detector Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oops ... another article, another clown detection!
> The people in the '70s in the mahoning valley have
> already screwed things up bad enough. Look at all
> the mess big bad warren and youngstown cities have
> caused over the last 30-50 years!
>
> Here's a great idea for you to ponder - properly
> taken, "merger" could definitely be the way to go
> - the key though is to have the correct end of the
> horse driving this concept so to speak.
> Annexation, in any form, in any disguise, must be
> avoided at all costs. When you have a sickness, a
> weakness, a cancer, etc., the last thing you want
> to do is expose good healthy sources to this bad
> sickness etc. The cities of warren and youngstown
> are, have been, and will continue to be like a
> cancer - just festering away for years on end
> until they eventually drag the whole valley down
> the tubes with them. When you speak of "mergers"
> here are some excellent ideas:
>
> a) MERGE Austintown, Canfield, Boardman, and
> Poland - four areas that have managed over the
> years to do things right - or at least more right
> than y'town.
>
> b) go to Trumbull County and MERGE Champion,
> Bazetta, Howland, Weathersfield, Vienna, and
> Liberty - again, areas that collectively do have
> and always have had something to show for their
> efforts.
>
> c) an alternative look could be to create the
> "Trumbull County Charter" and the "Mahoning County
> Charter" - but here is the key - you CAN NOT allow
> youngstown OR warren OR any of the current county
> politicians to meddle in this process, for they
> have the Midas touch, and as soon as they get
> involved, it will turn to crap - this fact has
> been proven over and over and over - put the
> bigger cities in the area in charge and they WILL
> find a way to screw things up for majority that
> makes up the rest of the county. Places like
> Niles, Newton Falls, Cortland, etc. may well fit
> in with this plan, but warren and y'town should be
> left out of the discussions until the plan is in
> action due to their proven track record of
> screwing things up.
>
> There you go - problem solved - and yes,
> regionalization COULD be a good thing - as long as
> it is done RIGHT and NOT done with the same
> mentality that has put the valley in such a
> horrific state as it currently is today. Think
> about it - you KNOW it's true.


Good ideas!!!!!!!

dan desalvo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> any group who's pursuing regionalism should
> investigate the studies which were performed by
> the ysu urban studies dept during the 1970's. I
> personally was part of a professor/student group
> who spent the good part of an academic year
> developing a survey questionaire which was used to
> interview a number of residents in defined
> neighborhoods.

Which specific, "defined" neighborhoods? Those with something to gain and nothing to lose by forcing people who chose to leave the city to pay homage to the city anyway? This study's information is now over 30 years old. What's happened to Youngstown since 1970? Is it better off today? Is it even the same city it was then? How about the suburbs? How have they changed since then?

> the professors involved were dr.
> frank costsa the urban studies director and dr.
> steve redburn, a political science instructor.
> I'm certain people will be quite surprised reading
> the study's outcomes.

I'll say it again - the information is now over 30 years old. It's outdated and irrelevant.

>
> the city of youngstown is in the prime position
> for pushing "mergers" through their control of
> water. I prefer this name mergers versus
> annexation. mergers are the underlying requirement
> for serious regionalization.

The term "merger" implies leadership from both parties want the same thing, and both groups will benefit from the union. This is not the case here. Youngstown is desperately scrabbling for the money the suburbs have, but Youngstown has no clear, or even nascent plan on how to deal with its own problems. These problems are one of the main reasons Youngstown has no money. The suburbs want no part of these problems, thus they want no part of Youngstown.

> if your discussing
> regionalization you need to be discussing merger
> governments. I sincerely doubt the city's
> leadership will take a strong stance here because
> of the probable future political aspirations of
> jay williams. thus, the private sector needs to
> lead.

The city's leadership is driven by greed, envy, and in the case of some members of its leadership, racism. They cannot or will not fix their own problems, believing instead that if they throw enough money at them, they will go away.

>
> besides schools, safety forces should be a target.
> mill creek "metropolitan" park functions as a
> county park, not a metro park. look at cleveland's
> metroparks. its ridiculous to have seperate levies
> for township parks and mill creek. a park district
> should be in control of all the parks with one
> regional park levy. certainly there can be
> representation from the townships on the metro
> board.

The creation of the Mill Creek Metropark was Mahoning Valley politics at its best, right down to the ballots being 'sequestered' for 30 days after election day, where they were safely out of sight. There again, Youngstown had everything to gain and nothing to lose by allowing the rest of the county to help them pay for their park. And what's happened to the park since? It's even less user-friendly than it was before the creation of the Metropark. Picnic areas are blocked off, roadside parking was eliminated, they quit maintaining open, grassy areas, user fees were raised for rentals, and let's not even mention the mud flat that used to be Lake Newport. "They're allowing it to return to its natural state"??? Please. It's a man-made lake. If they want it to return to its natural state, they should tear down the dam altogether, and remove all the silt and mud.
>
> this is a huge subject. one that takes years to
> plan, develop, implement and change. too bad
> there was and continues to be opposition to the
> obvious concept of regionalism. the latest of
> which was displayed by the boardman trustees
> regarding the water tank replacement issue. too
> many "big " fish in little ponds.

The opposition comes from distrust of Youngstown and the desire to avoid a similar fate in the suburbs. The suburbs see Youngstown as a drain on the resources that the suburbs enjoy, and a sapping of the quality of life in the suburbs. They see the city's government as corrupt and incompetant, and believe they have nothing to gain, but everything to lose by any partnership involving the city. It's not that the suburbs are against progress, but rather that they don't associate "progress" with "Youngstown."

> Doug,
>
> Spoken like a true socialist. If you can't feed
> yourself mooch off your neighbors, right? Please
> reevaluate your political affiliations in the
> future. As a TRUE conservative I am here to rip
> up your membership card to the Republican Party.
>
>
> Toad

....A true conservative would be in favor of regionalization. It cuts down on the size of government and the cost.You need to educate yourself!


Hate Everyone,

Contrary to your statement redistribution of wealth IS NOT a conservative ideal. However, it sure sounds as though you and Doug have been reading from the same book - The Communist Manifesto perhaps?

Toad