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Re: Axis of idiots
Posted by: bhoy (IP Logged)
Date: October 13, 2009 10:53PM

How is my freedom of speech impacted by what's happening in Afghanistan? Or what happened in Vietnam where we lost, and yet lost none of our personal freedoms in America.

People would be better off if they realized that our soldiers are being used by a government that hasn't ever cared about its citizens. How anyone could be tricked into joining the military today is beyond me considering how dispensable they are to our leaders; both Democrats and certainly Republicans who haven't ever missed a chance to shortfund the VA.

Re: Axis of idiots
Posted by: Trustme08 (IP Logged)
Date: October 14, 2009 07:22AM

Barbrady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You conservatives don't care if the strategy is
> good or even makes any sense. You're answer is to
> just throw more troops at the problem and ignore
> whether it is working or not or if our troops are
> getting slaughtered or not.
>
> Where were you when the chimp abandoned
> Afghanistan so he could fulfill the neocons agenda
> (PNAC) of overthrowing Iraq?
>
> Where were you when Rummy and Bush tried to fight
> these wars on the cheap?
>
> Where were you when troops were being sent into
> action without any armor?
>
> I'm sure the Bush Admin. had a hand in choosing
> Hamid Karzai as the inerim president. Is it any
> wonder that he's now viewed as corrupt? And isn't
> the corrupt Afghanistan govt. and their recent
> fraudulent elections the reason Obama is
> reconsidering our strategy in Afghanistan in the
> first place?

Of course this is the strategy approved by the general Obama picked to lead this war. And this strategy did work in Iraq. And this is the strategy that Obama himself said should be used. But don't let the facts get in your way of hating the troops and hating of Bush.

Re: Axis of idiots
Posted by: Barbrady (IP Logged)
Date: October 14, 2009 07:39PM

McChrystal himself has said we need a new strategy.

Re: Axis of idiots
Posted by: Alexandre (IP Logged)
Date: October 14, 2009 09:04PM

Barbrady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McChrystal himself has said we need a new
> strategy.


He did. And he's asking for 40,000 more troops to implement that new strategy.

Re: Axis of idiots
Posted by: Alexandre (IP Logged)
Date: October 14, 2009 09:14PM

bhoy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How is my freedom of speech impacted by what's
> happening in Afghanistan?

Your life and the life of your fellow citizens are impacted by what goes on in Afghanistan.

If the Taliban and Al Qaeda are permitted to retake Afghanistan, they will use it as a sanctuary in which to train, plan, recruit and stage more and more terrorist attacks on the USA.
This is as true as night follows day.

If you don't believe me, maybe you will believe President Obama. Here's what President Obama said:

"Make no mistake: we do not want to keep our troops in Afghanistan. We seek no military bases there. It is agonising for America to lose our young men and women. It is costly and politically difficult to continue this conflict. We would gladly bring every single one of our troops home if we could be confident that there were not violent extremists in Afghanistan and Pakistan determined to kill as many Americans as they possibly can. But that is not yet the case."
[www.guardian.co.uk]

Re: Axis of idiots
Posted by: HaHa (IP Logged)
Date: October 14, 2009 10:42PM

Barbrady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McChrystal himself has said we need a new
> strategy.

You need to quit watching NBC, MSNBC, CNN or what ever channel you have turned on. Obama has you right where he wants you - ignorant of the facts!

McChrystal asks for 40,000 more troops for the new strategy and somehow you believe this isn't what he asked for? Exactly what new strategy do you think McChrystal wants? What a joke. Pathetic!

Re: Axis of idiots
Posted by: bhoy (IP Logged)
Date: October 14, 2009 11:05PM

This isn't a zero-sum situation wherein we either continue to bankrupt ourselves by fighting needless wars, or be enslaved by terrorists. We could much more easily seek to contain potential terrorists and work harder to keep these types from our shores by using good intelligence and start restricting travel or money transfers to countries where we have evidence of Al-Qaida training facilities.

If we're worried about homegrown terrorists, we could simply put an end to any and all travel to Pakistan/Afghanistan/Sudan/etc. We can't be hit from Kabul, and we can prevent anyone coming into this country who's been to any risky country beforehand.

Obama's wrong on all this. Originally, we were correct to go into Afghanistan, but we put ourselves in a situation where we cannot win over the last 5 years.

As for 9-11, my life didn't change one iota. Sure it was tragic, but I'm much more concerned with the local meth-heads than I am about some fundamentalist. Plus, I've lived in London where there had been numerous bombings over the years; that's life, and while the state should do what it can to protect us, there's always that variable that could happen. Look no further than that lad on the US national team who almost died in that car accident yesterday.

Only the naive think that 9-11 changed anything in this world.



Alexandre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bhoy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How is my freedom of speech impacted by what's
> > happening in Afghanistan?
>
> Your life and the life of your fellow citizens are
> impacted by what goes on in Afghanistan.
>
> If the Taliban and Al Qaeda are permitted to
> retake Afghanistan, they will use it as a
> sanctuary in which to train, plan, recruit and
> stage more and more terrorist attacks on the USA.
>
> This is as true as night follows day.
>
> If you don't believe me, maybe you will believe
> President Obama. Here's what President Obama said:
>
>
> "Make no mistake: we do not want to keep our
> troops in Afghanistan. We seek no military bases
> there. It is agonising for America to lose our
> young men and women. It is costly and politically
> difficult to continue this conflict. We would
> gladly bring every single one of our troops home
> if we could be confident that there were not
> violent extremists in Afghanistan and Pakistan
> determined to kill as many Americans as they
> possibly can. But that is not yet the case."
> [www.guardian.co.uk]
> -obama-keynote-speech-egypt

Re: Axis of idiots
Posted by: Alexandre (IP Logged)
Date: October 15, 2009 02:45AM

bhoy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This isn't a zero-sum situation wherein we either
> continue to bankrupt ourselves by fighting
> needless wars, or be enslaved by terrorists.

Kill or be killed is as zero-sum as it gets.

We
> could much more easily seek to contain potential
> terrorists and work harder to keep these types
> from our shores by using good intelligence and
> start restricting travel or money transfers to
> countries where we have evidence of Al-Qaida
> training facilities.

We've done many those things and, by themselves it isn't enough. It is impossible to provide a 100% effective seal around the USA.

We have an open society and the country is too large. There's no reasonable way the government can track all of the travel and transactions.

> If we're worried about homegrown terrorists, we
> could simply put an end to any and all travel to
> Pakistan/Afghanistan/Sudan/etc. We can't be hit
> from Kabul, and we can prevent anyone coming into
> this country who's been to any risky country
> beforehand.

How would the government stop travel to those countries. We've had a travel ban on Cuba for almost 50 years, and Americans go there daily. They just fly to Mexico and then from Mexico they fly to Cuba. The Cubans don't require a visa or stamp American passports so its impossible for the USA government to know they were there.

And in the news this week it was reported that the government isn't able to track foreigners who overstay their visas.

[www.nytimes.com]

> Obama's wrong on all this. Originally, we were
> correct to go into Afghanistan, but we put
> ourselves in a situation where we cannot win over
> the last 5 years.

We definitely won't win if we don't take the advice of the general on the ground. A surge won in Iraq at a time when most Democrats said the war was lost. Obama was right to advocate for a surge in Afghanistan.

> As for 9-11, my life didn't change one iota.

Then you must have born on or after 9/12/01.

Sure
> it was tragic, but I'm much more concerned with
> the local meth-heads than I am about some
> fundamentalist.

You have that luxury of non-concern because since 9/11/01, we've been fighting the fundamentalists in Iraq and Afghanistan rather than here. We don't fight them there we will fight them here.

Plus, I've lived in London where
> there had been numerous bombings over the years;
> that's life, and while the state should do what it
> can to protect us, there's always that variable
> that could happen.

The less the state does the bigger that variable gets. The more the state does the smaller that variable gets. You're advocating that the state do less.

Look no further than that lad
> on the US national team who almost died in that
> car accident yesterday.
>
> Only the naive think that 9-11 changed anything in
> this world.

Yeah, other than two wars, the reorganization of the U.S. federal government, the enactment of major new laws, the reordering of the world economy, 9/11 didn't change anything. LOL

Re: Axis of idiots
Posted by: Barbrady (IP Logged)
Date: October 15, 2009 08:16PM

Alexandre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Barbrady Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > McChrystal himself has said we need a new
> > strategy.
>
>
> He did. And he's asking for 40,000 more troops to
> implement that new strategy.

His new strategy is still basically nation building. Obama is weighing whether this is a smart way to go or not given the recent corrupt election.

Re: Axis of idiots
Posted by: Barbrady (IP Logged)
Date: October 15, 2009 08:37PM

Apparently, conservative George Will thinks we should get out of Afghanistan also!

[www.washingtonpost.com]

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